司馬勤

對(duì)于很多藝術(shù)家來(lái)說，后疫情時(shí)代的演出日程極度兩極分化，從“饑荒”到“盛宴”——要么少得可憐，要么一下子多得要命。今年3 月，作曲家黃若臨危受命，親自指揮他的新歌劇《山海經(jīng)》（Book of Mountains & Seas ）的紐約首演。這部作品重新審視與呈現(xiàn)了中國(guó)的上古神話，作曲家的搭檔是木偶藝術(shù)家兼設(shè)計(jì)師巴索爾· 特威斯特（Basil Twist）。與此同時(shí)，華盛頓國(guó)家歌劇院在肯尼迪中心舉行了黃若的另一部新歌劇《裂痕》（TheRift ）的世界首演，編劇是托尼獎(jiǎng)得主黃哲倫。6 月，黃哲倫與作曲家盛宗亮合作的歌劇《紅樓夢(mèng)》，在2016 年世界首演及2017 年中國(guó)巡演后，重返舊金山歌劇院舞臺(tái)。

然而，上述的這些制作只能算是“序曲”。也許今年夏季最令人期盼的，是美國(guó)圣達(dá)菲歌劇院（Santa Fe Opera）即將舉行的歌劇《蝴蝶君》（M.Butterfly ）的世界首演。該劇由黃若譜曲，編劇黃哲倫改編自自己最具代表性的同名獲獎(jiǎng)話劇。故事把普契尼引進(jìn)百老匯——通過20 世紀(jì)六七十年代背景下一位法國(guó)外交官與一位中國(guó)京劇旦角演員之間多年的情結(jié)解構(gòu)并反轉(zhuǎn)普契尼的《蝴蝶夫人》。話劇版于1986 年10 月完成，1988 年2 月在華盛頓國(guó)立劇院首演，35 年后該劇的歌劇版得以登上舞臺(tái)猶如水到渠成。事實(shí)上，這個(gè)計(jì)劃在過去十年里一直進(jìn)展得一波三折、斷斷續(xù)續(xù)——包括原定的世界首演由于疫情原因從2020 年延期至今。

雖然因疫情停擺的工作再次繁忙起來(lái)，兩位藝術(shù)家仍然愿意騰出時(shí)間來(lái)一起討論他們的最新作品和一直以來(lái)的多項(xiàng)合作，以及應(yīng)對(duì)過去兩年半里周圍一切的心得。

你們倆今年都挺忙碌。

黃若：嗯，但這不代表我的創(chuàng)作量突然增加或工作節(jié)奏飛快提速。你知道的，畢竟我們經(jīng)歷了一次大疫情。其實(shí)，某些項(xiàng)目已經(jīng)醞釀很久了。

黃哲倫：劇場(chǎng)演出相對(duì)較晚才恢復(fù)，但我正忙著幾部電視劇的制作。當(dāng)然也有歌劇創(chuàng)作。每個(gè)領(lǐng)域都有不同的防疫限制措施。項(xiàng)目成功與否，效果參差。

《蝴蝶君》這部歌劇醞釀很久了?，F(xiàn)在再次聆聽已經(jīng)寫好的音樂，有什么感想？

黃若：你知道嗎？今年年初，圣達(dá)菲歌劇院邀請(qǐng)我們參加了一場(chǎng)在古根海姆博物館舉行的工作坊演出。他們問我：“歌劇院現(xiàn)存的《蝴蝶君》總譜分譜還需要修改嗎？”我想了想，感覺這些寫好的音樂在疫情期間像被時(shí)間凝固了一樣，現(xiàn)在只需要“解凍”了。

有沒有大改動(dòng)？

黃若：大的改動(dòng)談不上。但現(xiàn)在的世界已迥然不同了。無(wú)論是精神還是肉體，我們已到了另一個(gè)層面。當(dāng)你欣賞一部交響樂或舞臺(tái)制作時(shí)，完全可以感受出它是疫情前還是疫情后的成品。太多疫情前的作品現(xiàn)在看起來(lái)過分和諧歡聚（Kumbaya -happy），或只是為了藝術(shù)而藝術(shù)——這顯得尤為膚淺，或者說與我們的經(jīng)歷脫節(jié)。疫情的確改變了我們對(duì)事物的看法——最起碼，我是這樣。但是，《蝴蝶君》是永恒的，不會(huì)為了迎合新興潮流而有所改動(dòng)。

黃哲倫：在接近歌劇尾聲，當(dāng)外交官伽里瑪（Gallimard）啟程回到巴黎時(shí)，我們添加了一首新的詠嘆調(diào)。我和黃若一起合作過《蝴蝶君》與《一個(gè)美國(guó)士兵》，他兩度在譜曲的過程中，請(qǐng)我再寫一段詠嘆調(diào)唱詞，用于將故事與人物帶入最后的情感高潮。這兩部歌劇中的最后增添部分都成為我最喜歡的段落。

《一個(gè)美國(guó)士兵》是你們首部合作的歌劇。作品是怎樣誕生的？

黃若：2013 年初， 我收到了華盛頓國(guó)家歌劇院藝術(shù)總監(jiān)弗朗切斯卡· 贊貝羅（FrancescaZambello） 的電話， 她剛剛成立了華盛頓國(guó)家歌劇院的“ 美國(guó)新歌劇計(jì)劃”（American OperaInitiative）。她有意委約一部時(shí)長(zhǎng)60 分鐘的歌劇，一是問我有沒有故事題材，二是問我心目中有沒有理想的編?。克岢鲆粋€(gè)條件：歌劇講述的必須是一則美國(guó)故事。我跟哲倫提出這個(gè)歌劇計(jì)劃項(xiàng)目，他提議寫陳宇暉（Danny Chen）的故事。當(dāng)時(shí)，我們?cè)懻撨^改編《蝴蝶君》，但是《一個(gè)美國(guó)士兵》卻成為我們合作的首部作品，并在2014 年首演。

黃哲倫：陳宇暉是美籍華裔美軍士兵，不幸飽受其他士兵對(duì)他的種族歧視且被欺凌至死。我曾聯(lián)絡(luò)過他的家人，有意構(gòu)思一部話劇。我們最終把這個(gè)故事搬上了歌劇舞臺(tái)的其中一個(gè)原因是，這個(gè)故事情節(jié)分明，毫不拖泥帶水，所涉及的道德議題——誰(shuí)對(duì)誰(shuí)錯(cuò)——也十分清晰。但歌劇可以把人物與故事升華到更深刻的境界。把這一類現(xiàn)實(shí)故事編寫成歌劇，再合適不過。

過了幾年，你們把《一個(gè)美國(guó)士兵》原來(lái)的一幕劇擴(kuò)充了。

黃若：圣路易斯歌劇院（Opera Theatre of St.Louis）委約了這個(gè)增長(zhǎng)版，并于2018 年首演?！兑粋€(gè)美國(guó)士兵》本來(lái)是一部相對(duì)小巧的紀(jì)實(shí)歌劇，哲倫為此收集了很多資料。我們把原來(lái)的一幕擴(kuò)展成二幕，讓角色有更多發(fā)展空間，但基本上情節(jié)沒有什么大改動(dòng)。在此前的華盛頓首演時(shí)，我們被有些樂評(píng)指稱為“不和諧”（dissonant）——這個(gè)形容詞不只限于音樂風(fēng)格，我們更被指控為“反美國(guó)”（anti-American）。在奧巴馬擔(dān)任總統(tǒng)期間，種族歧視這個(gè)議題——尤其是針對(duì)亞裔與美籍亞裔的種族歧視——從沒有被提及過。人們沒聽說過這些，不相信并且對(duì)此也毫不關(guān)心。因此，我們就像兩顆不和諧的石頭丟進(jìn)平靜的湖水中。但在圣路易斯演出時(shí)，已經(jīng)是特朗普?qǐng)?zhí)政時(shí)期，國(guó)家出現(xiàn)多重分歧。樂評(píng)描述我們的這部作品“令人心痛”以及“強(qiáng)大有力”。短短四年，我們從“不和諧”變得“強(qiáng)大有力”。

聽起來(lái)，你們兩人都是對(duì)歌劇藝術(shù)情有獨(dú)鐘。

其實(shí)，你們是怎樣認(rèn)識(shí)的？

黃若：我曾為哲倫的一部早期作品《鐵軌之舞》（The Dance and the Railroad ）的復(fù)排譜曲，這部作品后來(lái)參加了2012 年首屆烏鎮(zhèn)戲劇節(jié)。這次演出也包括了我親自演唱的段落，于是我們也開始談?wù)摳鑴?。?dāng)時(shí)，我已經(jīng)創(chuàng)作了一部用中文演唱的歌劇，希望接著探索英文歌劇。我們從哲倫現(xiàn)有的舞臺(tái)劇討論起，這樣要比從零開始創(chuàng)作容易得多。我當(dāng)然知道《蝴蝶君》。那是我在美國(guó)觀賞的首部話劇，一直以來(lái)我都?jí)粝霝樗鼘懖扛鑴　Ｌ峒啊逗窌r(shí)，我做好了心理準(zhǔn)備——我猜想哲倫也許會(huì)說“啊，已經(jīng)有人著手準(zhǔn)備歌劇版了”，但他說“沒有”。于是我們立刻決定，把《蝴蝶君》改編為歌劇。

黃哲倫：我完全不記得這部分的討論了。我大概沒有留心，直至某個(gè)歌劇院對(duì)這部作品感興趣。

我的初衷是創(chuàng)作《蝴蝶君》的音樂劇，但是當(dāng)年我不認(rèn)識(shí)任何作曲家。這個(gè)故事解構(gòu)自《蝴蝶夫人》，普契尼的音樂與劇中情節(jié)交錯(cuò)，話劇舞臺(tái)上的中國(guó)戲曲部分都是重新創(chuàng)作的。還有，話劇版本來(lái)聘請(qǐng)了約翰· 德克斯特（John Dexter）執(zhí)導(dǎo)，他是大都會(huì)歌劇院多年來(lái)的駐院導(dǎo)演。我想，命中注定的，《蝴蝶君》必然會(huì)有一個(gè)“音樂版”。

為什么等了這么久？

黃哲倫：我可以找個(gè)歌劇院毛遂自薦，并且跟他們說：“請(qǐng)幫我物色一位作曲家?！碑?dāng)然有這個(gè)可能。但是，作為編劇，去啟動(dòng)一個(gè)基于文學(xué)作品的音樂項(xiàng)目，還是缺乏相應(yīng)的主導(dǎo)能力。除非有一位作曲家覺得，這一文本具有改編成歌劇的必要性，否則整個(gè)計(jì)劃不可能往前推進(jìn)。

那么，現(xiàn)在終于是《蝴蝶君》歌劇誕生的時(shí)機(jī)了。

黃哲倫：2017 年，這部話劇在百老匯重演，導(dǎo)演是朱麗· 泰莫（Julie Taymor），為我提供了修改劇本的機(jī)會(huì)。一方面我添加了當(dāng)年法庭訴訟的細(xì)節(jié)，另一方面也增添了反映自1988 年以來(lái)，我們對(duì)于兩性定義的蛻變。我還加入了《梁山伯與祝英臺(tái)》的戲曲部分，這樣既豐富了性別平衡，也在普契尼音樂以外，增添了亞洲的音樂元素。我在歌劇劇本保留了《梁?！返牟糠郑纸Y(jié)合了新劇本的一些材料，以及黃若喜歡的1988 年原版的細(xì)節(jié)。

黃若：宋麗伶是劇中那位美麗動(dòng)人的戲曲演員，在歌劇中我選用了假聲男高音（countertenor）。而伽里瑪是男中音——不是男高音——他內(nèi)向，并不花哨！普契尼《蝴蝶夫人》中的“哼吟合唱”演變?yōu)橛懻撨@宗丑聞的“流言蜚語(yǔ)”合唱。還有，我把普契尼序曲中的某些主題注入到京劇旋律動(dòng)機(jī)里。

黃哲倫：將《蝴蝶君》改編為大型歌劇最棘手的部分，是這個(gè)故事本身只圍繞著兩個(gè)人發(fā)生。其他角色進(jìn)進(jìn)出出，但伽里瑪差不多從頭到尾都在舞臺(tái)上。這對(duì)于話劇演員來(lái)說屬于挑戰(zhàn)，但對(duì)于歌劇演員來(lái)講就真得太困難了。就歌劇架構(gòu)而言，詠嘆調(diào)很容易安排，比較艱難的是選擇適當(dāng)?shù)牡胤讲暹M(jìn)二重唱、三重唱、合唱等，力圖使音樂更多元化，同時(shí)也能讓獨(dú)唱演員有機(jī)會(huì)離開舞臺(tái)休息一會(huì)。

《蝴蝶君》本來(lái)應(yīng)該在2020 年首演，現(xiàn)在延遲至今年8 月。但是，你們兩人在此其間又創(chuàng)作了另一部歌劇?？梢哉f說這部作品的來(lái)龍去脈嗎？

黃若：那又是源于弗朗切斯卡的另一次來(lái)電，她再次向我委約獨(dú)幕歌劇，目的是為了慶?？夏岬现行牡?0 周年大慶。完整的項(xiàng)目名稱為《石刻的字句》（Written in Stone ），而每一組主創(chuàng)必須選擇位于華盛頓首都的紀(jì)念碑或建筑為主題進(jìn)行創(chuàng)作。

我選擇了越戰(zhàn)退伍軍人紀(jì)念碑，部分原因是我知道哲倫跟紀(jì)念碑的建筑師林瓔（Maya Lin）是好朋友，或許哲倫會(huì)有興趣深入探討這個(gè)主題。陳宇暉的故事是只圍繞著主角一個(gè)人的掙扎，哲倫認(rèn)為《裂痕》應(yīng)該增加不同角色與觀點(diǎn)。他最令人佩服的一筆，是在作品中展示了越南裔在美國(guó)的經(jīng)歷：一個(gè)南越士兵的遺孀質(zhì)問，為什么丈夫的名字沒有刻在紀(jì)念碑上。這個(gè)故事包含了很多層次。

黃哲倫：這顯然是一個(gè)更復(fù)雜更微妙的故事，但之前的《一個(gè)美國(guó)士兵》讓我們建立了信心去處理一個(gè)比較當(dāng)代的主題，作品涉及的道德議題比《一個(gè)美國(guó)士兵》更繁復(fù)更有層次。然而《裂痕》更短，而且一共只有四位演員。

黃若：演員陣容雖然有限制，但每人演出的角色數(shù)的可能性卻是無(wú)限的。我特別喜歡哲倫的話劇《黃面孔》（Yellow Face ）：在短短的時(shí)間內(nèi)，一位演員扮演了多個(gè)截然不同的角色?！读押邸返难輪T中有白種人、亞裔和非洲裔，他們扮演很多種類的人物。我們希望盡可能地具有包容性。

黃哲倫：《一個(gè)美國(guó)士兵》中也有演員負(fù)責(zé)兩個(gè)角色，但在《裂痕》里，每一位都要扮演不同角色。難度最高是女高音Karen Vuong，她飾演建筑師林瓔，但轉(zhuǎn)過來(lái)又要飾演一位越南裔女生。

你們創(chuàng)作《裂痕》時(shí)，正逢新冠疫情影響全球，一切都停滯了。當(dāng)時(shí)的環(huán)境有沒有影響到你們的創(chuàng)作？

黃若：2020 年3 月，我什么都寫不出來(lái)。截稿的日子迫在眉睫，我們也不確定演出能否如期進(jìn)行。

我跟哲倫通電話，他說：“你看，我們所在的國(guó)家現(xiàn)在社會(huì)不公，亞裔被仇視，國(guó)家分裂的程度猶如越戰(zhàn)時(shí)代?！彼囊痪湓捊o了我動(dòng)力，給了我斗志。

黃哲倫：當(dāng)年的不少藝術(shù)作品幫助國(guó)家與人民治愈了歷史的裂痕，我深受觸動(dòng)。

詹姆斯·羅賓遜（James Robinson）是華盛頓歌劇院《裂痕》的導(dǎo)演，也是圣路易斯《一個(gè)美國(guó)士兵》的導(dǎo)演。他也將執(zhí)導(dǎo)圣達(dá)菲歌劇院的《蝴蝶君》。2014 年，羅賓遜是黃若歌劇《中山逸仙》美國(guó)首演的導(dǎo)演。這么多年的合作有什么幫助？

黃若：在我的心目中，圣達(dá)菲才是《中山逸仙》的世界首演，因?yàn)槲易钤绲陌姹臼菫槲鞣浇豁憳逢?duì)寫的（2011 年，北京國(guó)家大劇院本來(lái)的演出延期;而在香港的演出則用了我另外寫的民樂團(tuán)版本）。

圣達(dá)菲也是我首次接觸歐美歌劇院，首次跟一位富有經(jīng)驗(yàn)的西方歌劇導(dǎo)演合作。他把歌劇中的每一個(gè)元素都融合起來(lái)，旨在為服務(wù)角色、戲劇、音樂張力的需要服務(wù)，而不會(huì)受政治因素的干擾。就在那一刻，我領(lǐng)略到，歌劇就是我的使命，以及我的身份、我要繼續(xù)走的路。

黃哲倫：我們合作的這些年來(lái)，我目睹了黃若在歌劇創(chuàng)作方面的成長(zhǎng)，尤其是他為人聲譜寫優(yōu)美旋律的能力。我一開始不確定他是否愿意寫富有調(diào)性的音樂，但他的早期作品感覺上很“管弦樂化”。

從《中山逸仙》起，他建立了更大的信心與勇氣，寫出名副其實(shí)、具有原創(chuàng)性的富有調(diào)性、抒情的旋律。

你們倆也開拓了一個(gè)獨(dú)特的主題門類，尤其是與亞洲有關(guān)的作品。

黃哲倫：幾個(gè)月前，林肯中心重新啟動(dòng)了“美國(guó)歌集”（American Songbook）音樂會(huì)系列，其中一場(chǎng)就是黃若的聲樂作品專場(chǎng)。全部曲目——包括《蝴蝶君》的詠嘆調(diào)——都是根據(jù)亞裔經(jīng)歷的真人真事創(chuàng)作的。我不肯定我們有沒有刻意鎖定目標(biāo)，記錄美國(guó)亞裔歷史，但是，我們的確有這種傾向。

黃若：我還寫過兩部跟美國(guó)亞裔主題沒有關(guān)系的歌劇，它們?cè)陲L(fēng)格與主題上也不一樣?！扼@園》（Paradise Interrupted ）是一部裝置歌劇（installationopera），藝術(shù)家馬文的動(dòng)態(tài)折紙雕塑猶如一個(gè)黑色的花園， 看起來(lái)像中國(guó)傳統(tǒng)的剪紙。然后就是《山海經(jīng)》。作品的起源是哥本哈根新藝術(shù)（ArsNova Copenhagen）合唱團(tuán)指揮保羅· 希里爾（PaulHillier）。他對(duì)我說：“我想委約你創(chuàng)作一部聽起來(lái)像你自己歌唱的作品。”從來(lái)沒有人向我提出過這種要求（大笑）。我認(rèn)為，歌劇就是歌唱與表演融合的藝術(shù)載體。故事有時(shí)候具體，有時(shí)候抽象。它必須有動(dòng)態(tài)，并運(yùn)用上多維空間。但是，歌聲必須有戲劇性。《山海經(jīng)》的陣容是12 位歌唱家與兩位打擊樂手。瓦格納粉絲們大概會(huì)抗議這部作品不算是歌劇，但如今的歌劇就是可以這樣。

不過，我一直很清楚，在歌劇院里，我的音樂有很大的機(jī)會(huì)與威爾第或普契尼的作品同期演出。我希望創(chuàng)作出的作品富有世界性，任何國(guó)家的歌劇院都可以制作及演出。但是關(guān)于選題方面，我當(dāng)然會(huì)選取與自身有關(guān)的主旨與故事，尤其是我身為亞裔與美籍華裔的身份。很少有創(chuàng)作者能夠深入探討自己最關(guān)心的故事。正因?yàn)槲矣羞@些幸運(yùn)的機(jī)會(huì)，我就應(yīng)該做得更多。如果我需要在創(chuàng)作關(guān)于孫中山或肯尼迪的歌劇中選擇，我當(dāng)然會(huì)選孫中山。至于肯尼迪，很多其他作曲家都可以勝任。

For many artists， the post-pandemic performanceschedule has gone from famine to feast. In March， thecomposer Huang Ruo found himself conducting theNew York performances of his Book of Mountains &Seas ， a retelling of the Chinese creation myth directedby puppeteer/designer Basil Twist， at the sametime his opera The Rift ， with a text by Tony Awardwinningplaywright David Henry Hwang， had its worldpremiere at the Washington National Opera. In June，Hwang saw the revival of Dream of the Red Chamber，his 2016 piece with the composer Bright Sheng， atSan Francisco Opera celebrating its return to thecompanys repertory after its 2017 China tour.

But these were mere prelude. Perhaps the mostanticipated operatic event of the summer is the SantaFe Operas world premiere of M. Butterfly ， Huangsoperatic version of Hwangs landmark play. For astory that brought Puccini to Broadway—albeit adeconstruction of Madama Butterfly filtered throughChinese espionage and a French diplomats longtermrelationship with a cross-dressing Peking Operasinger—its operatic retelling 35 years later might seeminevitable， perhaps long overdue. Its actual journey，however， was a decade of fits and starts—not leastbeing a two-year delay since the production was firstplanned for 2020.

The two artists each took a moment from theiragain-busy schedules to discuss their latest work， theirongoing collaboration and how they kept going duringthe past two and a half years.

Youve had a quite a busy year so far.

HUANG RUO： Well， it wasnt like I suddenly wrotea lot more， or a lot faster. We had a pandemic， youknow. Some of these projects had been brewing for along time.

DAVID HENRY HWANG： Live theatre has been a bitlate to come back， but Ive been working on severaltelevision projects. And of course， opera. All thesefields have different Covid protocols and some havebeen more successful than others.

M. Butterfly the opera has been brewing for a while.How did the music sound to you when you came back to it？

HR： You know， when Santa Fe invited us to do aworkshop at the Guggenheim Museum earlier this year，they asked me， “Are the scores we have still valid？” AndI really had to think. Everything Id written had beenfrozen in time， and now I had to start defrosting it.

Did you change much？

HR： Not really. Its a very different world now. Bothmentally and physically were in a different place.Whenever you see a symphony or a stage production，you can usually tell if it was created before thepandemic. Too many things seem either Kumbaya -happy or art-for-arts-sake—you know， superficial， orunrelated to our experience now. The pandemic reallychanged our—and least my—way of seeing things. ButM. Butterfly needed to be timeless， not just changed tobe the flavor of the month.

DHH： One of the things thats new is an aria towardthe end， when Gallimard goes to Paris. In both M.Butterfly and An American Soldier ， Huang Ruo gotto the point where he wanted one more emotionalclimax， and he came back to me for a new aria. Andboth times， that wound up becoming my favoritemoment in the opera.

An American Soldier was your first opera together，how did that come about？

HR： I got a call from Francesca Zambello， whod juststarted the American Opera Initiative at WashingtonNational Opera. She was interested in commissioninga 60-minute opera and asked me （1） Do I have anystory， and （2） Do I have any librettists in mind. Therewas only one condition： the story had to be American.So I mentioned this to David and he suggested thestory of Danny Chen. David and I had already talkedabout M. Butterfly， but American Soldier became ourfirst opera collaboration in 2014.

DHH： Danny Chen was a Chinese-American in the USArmy who was basically hazed to death by his fellowsoldiers. Id been in touch with the family and had beenthinking about writing a play. One reason we ended upwriting it as an opera was that the story didnt seem tohave much ambiguity. The moral issues involved—whowas right and who was wrong—seemed pretty clear.Opera is well-suited to those kind of stories.

You also turned the one-act into a full-length showa few years later.

HR： Opera Theatre of St. Louis commissioned alonger version， which they premiered in 2018. AnAmerican Soldier was originally a very compact docuopera，where David had done a lot of research. Weexpanded it to give more room for the characters todevelop， but it was fundamentally the same show.In Washington， we had been called “dissonant，” andnot just musically. David and I were basically accusedof being anti-American. While Obama was president，racism—particularly toward Asians and Asian-Americans—was never discussed. People hadnt heardof it， didnt believe it， and didnt care. So we weretwo dissonant rocks thrown in a peaceful lake. In St.Louis， when Trump was in office， there was so muchdivisiveness in our country. Critics called our show“heart-wrenching” and “powerful.” In four years， wewent from “dissonant” to “powerful.”

It sounds like a strong meeting of operatic minds.How did you first actually meet？

HR： I was writing music for a revival of Davids playThe Dance and the Railroad ， which later came to theWuzhen Theatre Festival in 2012. I was singing some ofthe music Id composed for the show and we startedtalking about opera. Id written an opera in Chineseand was looking to explore my American side， so westarted going through his existing plays， since thatwould be easier than creating something from scratch.Of course， I knew M. Butterfly . It was the first play I sawin America and Id wanted to set to music ever since.I was fully expecting him to say， “Oh， someone else isdoing it.” But we settled right then on M. Butterfly .

DHH： I dont remember that part at all， but I probablydidnt start paying attention until an opera companywas interested in staging it. My initial impulse wasalways for M. Butterfly to be a musical， but I didnt knowany composers back then. The story is a deconstructionof Madame Butterfly ， with Puccinis music oftencounterpointing the action in the play， and much of theChinese opera music had to be composed. Also， theoriginal director was John Dexter， who was in residenceat the Metropolitan Opera for years， so I suppose M.Butterfly was always destined to be musicalized.

So why did it take so long？

DHH： I suppose I couldve gone to an opera companyand said， “Find me a composer.” Its not impossible.But as a librettist theres no real incentive to initiatea project based on a literary property because itsnot going to move forward until a composer feelscompelled to take it on.

It seems like the time is finally right for M. Butterfly

DHH： There was also a Broadway revival of theplay in 2017 directed by Julie Taymor， where I wentback and rewrote the script both to include moreinformation from the court trial and to reflect howour understanding of gender has evolved since 1988. Ialso included some stuff about the Chinese opera TheButterfly Lovers ， which offered both a better genderbalance and an Asian counterpart to Puccini. I keptthe Butterfly Lovers stuff in the opera libretto， whichcombines elements of the new script with some thingsHuang Ruo liked from the 1988 version.

HR： Song Liling， being a Chinese opera singer inthe play， is a countertenor in the opera. Gallimard isa baritone， not a tenor—hes not that flashy！ Puccinis“Humming Chorus” in Madame Butterfly is reflected inthe “gossiping chorus” that relates the scandal. Also，Ive reworked some themes from Puccinis Overture asPeking Opera motifs.

DHH： The trickiest thing about adapting M. Butterflyinto a grand opera is that its essentially a twocharacterplay. Other characters come in and out， butGallimard is on stage almost the whole time， which isa challenge for a dramatic actor but really difficult fora singer. As far as operatic structure was concerned，arias were easy. The more difficult part was findingplaces for duets， trios and choruses， both to providesome variation in the music and to give singers sometime offstage.”

In between 2020， when M. Butterfly was originallyscheduled， and its actual premiere in August youwrote another opera. How did that come about？

HR： It was another call from Francesca， who wasagain commissioning short operas， this time tocelebrate the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy Center.The complete evening was entitled Written in Stone ，and each of the creators was asked to write somethingabout a monument in Washington. I choose theVietnam War Memorial， partly because I knew Davidwas a good friend of the architect Maya Lin and maybeit was something hed like to explore. But unlikeDanny Chen， which was one persons struggle， Davidwanted to bring in different characters with differentperspectives. His most brilliant stroke was having acharacter representing the Vietnamese experiencein America： the widow of a Vietnamese soldier whofought on the American side and asked why herhusbands name wasnt included. There were so manylayers involved.

DHH： This was obviously a more complicated andnuanced story， but An American Soldier gave us theconfidence to deal with a relatively recent subjectwith more complexity and many different shades ofmorality—with a shorter length， and only four singers.

HR： We had a limit on the cast， but no limit on thenumber of characters they could play. One of thethings I loved about Davids play Yellow Face wasseeing the same actors playing so many differentcharacters in such a rapid pace. We had Caucasian，Asian and African-American singers playing all sorts ofpeople. We wanted to be as inclusive as possible.

DHH： Wed done a certain amount of doubling inAmerican Soldier ， but here it wasnt just doubling buthaving actors playing a full track of characters. Thehardest was probably Karen Vuong， who after gettingthe audiences attention as Maya Lin then had toswitch and play a Vietnamese girl.

When you wrote The Rift ， the pandemic hadessentially shut down the world. Did that contextchange what you wrote？

HR： I wasnt able to write anything in March 2020.We had a short deadline， and we werent even sure thepremiere could take place. But I got on the phone withDavid， who told me “Look at where we are as a country，with social injustice and anti-Asian hate. We might be asdivided now as we were during Vietnam.” And that gaveme the energy， the fighting spirit to continue.

DHH： I was also moved by how a piece of art helpedto heal the rifts in our nation back then.

James Robinson， who directed The Rift inWashington， also directed An American Soldier inSt. Louis and is directing M. Butterfly in Santa Fe. Healso helmed the US premiere of Huang Ruos firstopera， Dr. Sun Yat-sen ， in Santa Fe in 2014. How hasthat relationship affected the works youve done？

HR： I consider Santa Fe to be the operas worldpremiere， since it used a Western orchestra as Ioriginally conceived it. [The scheduled premiere atthe National Centre for the Performing Arts in 2011was “postponed indefinitely” and the premiere inHong Kong used an orchestra of traditional Chineseinstruments.] It was my first experience with a Westernopera company， and the first time I had an experiencedopera director who could bring every componenttogether to serve the characters， drama and musicalintension with no political distractions. I knew thenthat composing opera was my calling， my identity， thepath I want to continue walking.

DHH： Over the time weve been working togetherI feel Huang Ruo has grown as an opera composer，particularly in his ability to write melodies for thevoice. I dont know if he was afraid to be tonal per se ，but his earlier pieces feel very orchestral to me. Sincethen， hes gained the confidence and courage to writetruly tonal， lyrical lines.

You both also seem to be developing a certaingenre of subject matter as well， particularly withAsian-related subjects.

DHH： Earlier this year， Lincoln Center relaunchedits American Songbook series with an evening ofHuang Ruos vocal music. Everything on the program—including arias from M. Butterfly—was based on trueevents involving Asians. Im not sure we ever set out todocument Asian American history， but its what wevebeen gravitating towards.

HR： I have two operas that are different， both fromthe others and from themselves. Paradise Interruptedwas what we called “installation opera，” createdalongside Jennifer Mas large sculpture of a blackgarden looking like a traditional Chinese papercut.Then we have Book of Mountains and Seas ， whichstarted when Paul Hillier， the conductor of the vocalensemble Ars Nova Copenhagen， said “I want tocommission something from you that sounds like theway you sing.” No one had ever said that to me before（laughing ）. To me， opera is a place with singing andacting. Sometimes the story is concrete， sometimesits abstract. And it must have movement， a use ofdimensional space. But the drama should be in thevoices. Mountain and Seas uses 12 singers and twopercussionists. Wagner fans would probably arguethat it isnt opera， but its what opera is today.

Im always conscious， though， that in the operahouse my music will probably be placed next to Verdior Puccini. I want to create work thats universal， thatany company can produce and present if they want to.But as for subject matter， I do seek out subjects andstories related to who I am， my identity as an Asianand Asian American. Not all creators out there are ina position to delve into the stories they really careabout， and since I have this opportunity， I should domore. If I had the choice between writing about SunYat-sen or JFK， Id choose Sun Yat-sen any day. Plentyof other composers out there can do JFK.